Section 1: The following Posts were posted on BibleDatabase:

Original post by Steven: Are homosexuals going to heaven? Yes or No answer only. Please Note: If there is a legitimate question in light of the Scriptures, I will be happy to discuss it, but I will not answer any posts that merely espouse personal view(s), sentiments or any self-glorifying debauchery on this subject. Simply, if you have something to say, prove it from the Scriptures.

Posted by Moonglow: Why do you want to know? You are being a bit demanding only asking for a yes or no answer here. None of us on here are God..and cannot judge in matters of whether someone is going to Heaven or not. Going to Heaven to live with God forever requires that person to be saved through Jesus Christ. We cannot judge a person's salvation and its against board rules to judge anyones salvation on here. So if you really really want to know...I guess you need to take that up with God.

Posted by Project Peter: Why moonglow... don't you recognize it when a person knows all and has all the answers? After all this time! I'll sum this up in two words.... heavy sigh!

Posted by SlightlyPuzzled: Steven, I see by your Home Page that you are a pastor. Is there something specific you want to do here? This question has been asked, debated, ranted over, and vilified on all sides too many times. Do you have something up your sleeve, or are you trying to get the 'lay of the board'?

Posted by ChristopherE: Does God measure sin that one is not forgiven over another? It's a matter of repentance for the sin, not the specific sin.

Posted by Steven: SlightlyPuzzled, I am absolutely trying to get the 'lay of the board'. I believe this is a good question for modern Christians to answer. The Bible is very specific about homosexuality; why can't we be specific as well? - Steven

Posted  Qbee: That question cant be answered with yes or no.There is an if ... involved .. Are sinners going to heaven ?? Yes or No Are pastors from California going to heaven ?? Yes or No Eph. 6:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. you may need to re-phrase your question .. Here is what I believe.. Just because one becomes saved that does not instantly stop or cure them from being HS or the temptation. They will still feel these urges. But through the grace of God they will overcome this sin and not practice HS behavior ... that does not mean they will not stumble or fall in there walk. but if they do they will continue to repent and overcome this behaviour. Some do find a complete change and healing and go on to live hetos*xual lives. But most dont they have to struggle with this temptation and  overcome through the power of the Holy Spirit. I will say that those who blantantly and willingly continue to practice.. PRACTICE a sinfull lifestyle and do not repent or seek to overcome thier sins. are not saved.. They only gave lip service.. not true repentence or faith from the thier heart.. They have no faith .. in the one who can save them. That is for all sinners not just HS. We need to practice our faith not practice SIN. that shows lack of faith .. Now Im not talking about stumbling in our Christian walk ... Im talking about willingly and blantantly practicing sin with no repentance or change...That shows the Holy Spirit is NOT present or working in our lives. Practice makes perfect ... So what are we practicing ..

Posted by SlightlyPuzzled: Steven, I have no problem with you asking... though this thread can turn into a bad one real quick. I am simply setting a watch over a question that has, on this board, raised a firestorm before....now, ask away... I just warn all to answer with grace, love and patience...

Posted by WhisperingGrace: I believe if a homosexual repents and turns away from the lifestyle, and accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, then he is saved.

Posted by Steven: WhisperingGrace, The believer's definition does not come from some so-called 'sexual orientation', but by God's grace through faith for the repentant redeemed, who are also known as Christians. Thus, we are not defined by sin, as believers in Christ. As far as those who practice homosexuality, they will not enter the Kingdom of God. - Steven

Posted by WhisperingGrace: Steven, Exactly. We are not defined by sin. We are ALL sinners. We ALL fall short of the glory of God. And any person who repents and trusts in Jesus as his Lord and Savior is saved.....regardless of which sin he committed.

Posted by Steven: WG, So, according to the logic of your statement, homosexuals are not going to Heaven, only the redeemed righteous. - Steven

Posted by The J Man: Steven, I totally agree with what Whispering Grace said about repentance and accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour. Since you stated what you just stated, what is your reason to even ask this question?

Posted by Steven: J-man, Why not just answer the question instead of speciously creating a new one? Read previous posts to be informed of my reason. - Steven

Posted by Sanctified: There is no "yes or no" answer to a question about who will go to Heaven. We dont know. We aren't God, and He's the only One who makes that decision. I think that if someone, anyone, repents, has their sins forgiven, and strives to live for the Lord, they will go to Heaven. However, because I am not God, I do not know for sure.

Posted by DancedWithDolphin: Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie; but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. The abominable sinful acts of this world will not be in the Kingdom of God. I guess none of us can say who will and will not be allowed in, God alone knows the heart, but for certain we can say: these acts will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Posted by Journey360: Steven, Since you are asking this question in present tense, there is absolutely no way at all that a "homosexual" who is currently a "homosexual" can possible enter into the kingdom of God. According to God's Word, they will be damned to hell; and the lake of fire. Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination. Homosexuality is an abomination. Abomiation is something that is detestable to God both ritually and morally. Homosexuality is an abomination type ritual because it was practiced in Canaanite religion, which God had commanded Israel not to follow. Keep in mind that Noah put a historical curse on his grandson Canaan to this very day (Gen.9:25) 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. v.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: v.12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Now since the homosexual chose not to receive the love of the truth, that his behavioral choice is an abomination, God must be true to His Word and "send STRONG delusion, that they should believe a lie (the lie being that they were born that way) that they all might be damned (damned meaning hell;the lake of fire) who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. The answer to your question is "NO" Now if you are speaking of an ex-homosexual, who has become saved and is now siding with God, that's a different case all together.

Posted by MightyMutt: I'll be bold. NO, homosexuals are not going to heaven. Because they, like all others who live a lifestyle of sin, have clearly not repented of their sin and been born again leaving the old sinful lifestyle behind. Will we all still sin? Of course. Will we all still live sinful lifestyles? Not if God the Holy Spirit has indwelled us and is sanctifying us.

Posted by Matt14: A Bible answer: 1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. So, the answer is "no." But there's lots of others that won't either, including thieves, liars, etc.

Posted by Moonglow: Steven, I answered you the way I did because I thought you were a troll here to cause trouble...the way you presented yourself with the thumbs down as if us saying hom*sexuals wouldn't go to heaven you would tear into us...it looked up a set up to me...plus as I said, very demanding on your part of 'telling us' to only answer with a yes or no. I don't appericate being talked to like that. Especially by a new member who at the time only had two posts. I will quote the bible and what the bible says on this, but I, for one, do not feel like its my place to say whether someone goes to heaven or not. That isn't my place. The scriptures speak for themselves, I don't need to add to them.

Posted by Journey 360: moonglow, Well, do you feel like it's your place to side with God?

Posted by Steven: Matt14, Good point. Well taken. Whom can argue with the Scriptures? " let God be true, but every man a liar" Romans 3:4

Posted by Steven: Journey360, Amen. Thank you for quoting the Scriptures. Outside of Christ we were all under sin and in need of a Savior; God through His Son has given mankind the opportunity to repent and receive atonement of sins. Why would someone go back to being called by their sin when Christ bore it away for them once and for all? - Steven

Posted by Steven: Mooglow, Perhaps I misunderstood... where was it that you let the Scriptures speak for you? Why judge by the number of posts a person makes? Instead, why not test and approve what is said in Light of Scripture. What a novel idea. Do you think God will care how many posts we've made on the day of Judgment? - Steven

Posted by Steven: Mighty Mutt, Amen! It is encouraging to see that God has sharpened the consciences of some, especially on such a basic point which the Church has held to for over 2000 years, save for modern day 'christian tolerance', where the term 'love' means embrace and accept that which God terms 'abomination'. - Steven

Posted by Mooglow: Steven, The scriptures were already posted and since you are a pastor, I assume you know them anyway. What I was refering too is when I am actually in a discussion with hom*sexuals. I don't feel its 'my' place to judge them, but only to post the related scriptures themselves. God can speak for Himself. And I should have explain why I mentioned the number of posts you had done...its very common for this board to be attacked by trollers who don't like the Word of God, so don't like us...and they post imflammatory posts just to start arguements with us...or worse. The moderators and admin stand in the gap between us and them and usually get those posts deleted (the ones that are obviously attacking us or our faith) but some, like yours...they have to wait and see what your motivates are....I have seen people do posts excatly like yours then blast us for saying hom*sexuals won't go to Heaven. So that is why it looked like a set up to me. Its been done many times before. This doesn't happen with long time members with alot of post under their belts...its the ones with one or two (few) posts that do this stuff, (new members)...so of course I wondered because of the few posts you had and the topic at hand. Because it IS common for this to happen on here. Of course God, I am sure, could care less about numbers of posts a person has but only their motivates....I didn't understand why you even brought that up...

Posted by Steven: WhisperingGrace: Did you read my posts correctly? Homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Please note the following portions of the Scripture and you'll know why so many FALSE CHRISTIANS consent to homosexuals: "25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie" Rom. 1:25 "not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Rom. 1:32" God does NOT give over believers, this is only as a result of continual rejection of Christ. The Greek term for ‘gave them over’ is speaking of handing a prisoner over to his sentence, i.e. when men consistently abandon God, He will abandon them. Pay attention to the beginning of Romans 1:26 - 'For This Reason', God gave them up, because they denied God's existence and worshiped nature over God they no longer have conscience to the issues of sin and homosexual and vile passions eventually follow, according to these passages. On Romans 1:32 - knowing God. Not ignorance, but blatant rebellion against God. They knew God because their conscience bore witness to God, the word conscience is literally 'with knowledge of'. A good example of this is a pagan, in simple words, but one as verse 20 tells us was revealed the attributes of God by the conscience and creation itself bearing witness of God. -Steven

Posted by Cisco Kid: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Notice the abover verse doesn't say: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that any non-gay that believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Posted by Steven: Cisco Kid, Please note the following verses in John IN CONTEXT: 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:18-21 - Steven

Posted by ProjectPeter: Ah shoot man... Context hasn't meant much in a lot of years now! Guess it ain't going to change much until come one day soon! I figure there is going to be some mighty shocked folk!

Posted by CiscoKid: Steven, If this is your evidence that homosexuals won't be in heaven then it appears that none of us will be there.

Posted by ProjectPeter: Cisco, So do you think those words of Jesus negate all the other words of Jesus as well as the rest of Scripture?

Posted by Steven: As long as you have air in your lungs, you have the ability to repent. However, no homosexual will enter the Kingdom of God. The Scriptures say, if you notice, "this is what some of you WERE, but you have been washed" ; when you have been washed and sanctified, you are clean, you are NO LONGER a homosexual, or a thief, or a liar; you are no longer IDENTIFIED by your sin, otherwise you were not really washed. Why would anyone want to be identified by their sin? Why not rather be identified by Christ, our Redeemer? Identifying yourself by your sin while claiming Christ, is completely contrary to Christ and rejects His atoning work!! Therefore, NO... homosexuals will NOT be in the Kingdom of God, nor the "sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10[u]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers". 1 Corinthians 6:9 If we be in Christ, we become sons and co-heirs with Christ. We have been washed, cleansed and purified, annointed and possessed by the Spirit of God, and positionally, we stand righteous in the eyes of God; why then go identify with, or participate in, or even associate with a sin that is not even of the natural, to wear this defiled thing like a cloak, all the while claiming Christ? This twisted doctrine is as heinous as the sin itself, for its message attempts to pervert the Body of Christ. Now do I have something against homosexuals? No, we are all under sin and they are in need of a savior; besides, I live in California. If a homosexual asks me "Am I going to go to Heaven?", I say, "Absolutely Not. If you continue in your sins, you will not enter the Kingdom of God." Keep in mind, the Scripture says they have been GIVEN OVER to these things. - Steven

Posted by Steven: Follow up to previous post on subject: The Scriptures say: Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: Rom. 1:24 The very fact that they continue to have lust towards that which is against nature is because God has already given them over to an unclean mind. Emphasis on the word 'continue', showing the evidence of lack of repentance. Have we lied? Yes, we'd be lying to say otherwise, but am I am liar? Do I continue to lie? No, because we as believers in Christ remain in continual repentance and confession, through the work of the Holy Spirit. There is a distinction. To equate lying with homosexuality is comparing day to night, for many reasons, one of which is: is it not normative in the Scriptures anywhere. Nowhere in the Scriptures will you find Jesus, the Apostles, the Patriarchs, nor the prophets ever engaging in homosexuality, and anytime this sin is mentioned in the Bible, anywhere, it is met harshly with God's full wrath. Now, you will find those justified by faith whom have lied, whom have murdered and whom have envied, etc.; but nowhere in the Scriptures will you find those justified by faith lusting after that which is against nature or participating in homosexual acts. You only find that in modern, feminized 'christian' culture. You must ask yourself, why do you have to defend the sin of homosexuality, when the Scriptures are very clear cut? The body of Christ has vehemently held to the Scriptural view of homosexuality as being an abomination to God, for over 2000 years, and suddenly in the last 20-30 years, modern 'christian' academia has decided it knows better than the 'intolerant' God of the Universe. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22 - Steven

Posted by SlightlyPuzzled: Steven, why don't you just come on out and explain how you couple your scriptures together...this has gone on long enough.....lets get it over with....I read the debate and think you should let the others know your 'whole view' and see what they think.....

Posted by Steven: Slightly Puzzled, Democracy is fine for ruling over people, but it cannot be applied to Theology; the Scriptures play out as a Theocracy: God is right and man is wrong. There is either a right answer or a wrong answer, it is God's word or it is not; it is just that simple, the Bible is not a mess of pluralities: there is one God, one Lord, one faith, one Body... and one Biblical opinion on essentials of the Faith. What concerns me is that in many 'biblical debate' forums anyone can spout anything at any time, and this is considered 'debate'; it is not. Good debate opens up the Scriptures and mutually tests and approves a certain subject in light of Scripture, not human reasoning, not 'i think' or 'i feel'. This is why it was addressed as a yes or no answer, thus to move away from this espousing of opinions, instead of God's Word.   For the sake of clarification, yes or no, with Scriptural support, is the thread. For example: "No." " Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 This is simple, God's word says homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God; there is no confusion or 'secondary opinion'. - Steven

Posted by Steven: "Know ye not that the unrighteous (The wicked here are 'unjust ones, trecherous; specially, heathen') shall not inherit (Inherit here is literally and figurative 'to be an heir'.) the kingdom of God? Be not deceived (Be not led astray, as if to say that there would be those in the Body of Christ, whom would be led astray to think the wicked could enter the Kingdom of God.)neither fornicators (male prostitutes), nor idolaters, nor adulterers (male paramour), nor effeminate (figuratively, a catamite, effeminate), nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (homosexual, a sodomite) 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, (to wash fully, i.e. (figuratively) have remitted (reflexively) - Christ died once and for all for the sins of the world; you have been washed, past tense, no longer are you stained by sin.) but ye are sanctified (to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate, but ye are justified (made right - to render (i.e. show or regard as) just or innocent), in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Yes, some were on this list, but God's power has fully washed us, ( not partially, not halfway, nor 2/8ths...fully) , redeemed us and sanctified us, so that sin no longer reigns; we are no longer held captive by this list, nor do we continue in these sins, nor are we identified as 'the wicked', but instead identified soley in Christ, our Lord, our Savior and Redeemer. - Steven

Posted BY ScruffyKid: ...This thread's title, and the posts of many who wish to emphasize that "homosexuals will not go to heaven", singles out people particularly offensive to the evangelical Christian community, and focuses on their sinfulness and the penalties they are apt to incur. This approach is not that of Scripture, I believe, but rather utterly at variance with the Scriptures' careful and balanced and clear approach to sin and sinners...

Posted by Steven: ScruffyKid, I noticed you placed that in the middle of your soliloquy and have no Scriptural backing for it. Where is the Scriptural backing for this point?   ProjectPeter, Good Point. - Steven

Posted by ProjectPeter: Thanks Steven but in all honesty... I am not sure of your motive either. I read your website as well and read the debate section. It seems to be a major issue with you and one that you seem willing to go to various sites and start a discussion on. You did come into the discussion with your first post in the forum or near the first with an awfully demanding and arrogant tone. So the thread started off horribly in the first place. And Scruffy Kid isn't all wrong. There hasn't been much balance for a lot of very difficult issues that a lot of real people face on this issue. While I am not going to ever say differently than it is hell for the person that does this or has it in their heart... I take no joy in that. And I'll do what I can do to help someone in that situation to get out of it and I have to the best of my ability with the help of God. But I take no joy in the struggle and no delight in the eternal destination for those that are in the mess. And that does go for any sin that folks find themselves entangled in. So while I thank you for thinking it a good point... I am going to be honest with you too. I haven't figured you out just yet and hopefully you might be around long enough to take away the discomfort that I felt when I read the first post. But as it stands right now... I am one of the biggest questioners of your motive. I am not judging you on it as of yet (not one of those that is afraid to do just that if necessary because it is biblical regardless of what folks like to think) but I figure time will tell us soon enough. I truly do hope you stick around and last a while because new folk make the forum what it is. But right now I will call it a wait and see thing until I see some more of your post. So while we may seem allies in this discussion, I just wanted to set the record straight with you upfront. And that's the way I am as I am sure many in here will attest to.

Posted by Steven: Do I take pleasure in this subject? No. I like to address the main issues which face the Church today, and unfortunately this is a big one. Understand, I do not come on here to be pen-pals; I am here to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ; sometimes that can seem arrogant to those whom come here for other reasons. Perhaps next time you could be a tad more specific (with the intent to edify) on what you consider arrogant. I am glad you looked at the site, however, our site has hundreds of articles on varying topics, 1/3 of which I have written; there are 10 different authors whom contribute to the site. There is only one debate there on this subject, and perhaps two follow-up articles. Hope this helps. - Steven

Posted by ProjectPeter: And you are a bright enough bulb in the hall to understand what I am saying to you about arrogance. I don't come here for pen-pals either. I just chose to be upfront and honest with you. Whether you care for that or not is not my concern right now in all honesty. I read enough of your stuff to recognize the fact that you can handle the truth straight up and perhaps you, like me, would rather prefer it that way. So you have heard it from me. I am not disagreeing with you on the issue. But as I said... time will tell your motive. And where you stand on the issue means jack to me. Motive is what it is about. That you take no pleasure in the subject remains to be seen in all honesty. There are a wide number and variety of discussions going on in the forum. Yet you jump right in starting this topic as well as a lot of others. So back to that same issue of motive. Most of the folks in this forum will discuss with you till their fingers ache from all the typing. So discuss with them honestly and you'll likely find it worth coming in here. Take that for what it's worth. If you are here only to preach down to folk... then have at it. You won't be here long... they never are.

Posted by Steven: Here's a study aid on the subject: Romans 1-3: speaks of condemnation and the need of God's righteousness for: 1. unrighteous gentiles (vs. 1:18-32), 2. unrighteous Jews (vs. 2:1-3:8), 3. unrighteous mankind. (vs. 3:9-20) Verse 1:18 - God's wrath is revealed against men, who although they are convicted of their sin, oppose and resist God's truth by holding fast to their sins. Paul is speaking of those who reject Christ, unbelievers. 1:21 - another point of this being spoken to the lost: 'their foolish hearts were darkened" When man rejects Christ his heart is darkened and spiritual falsehood reigns in it. Look at John 3:18-20 "18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." Also - Psalms 14:1-3 and 53:1-3: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. 2. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. 2. God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. 3. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." 1:20 - God revealed his righteousness 1:24 - So, because they rejected Christ, did not believe His message and instead turned to vain philosophies and their own wisdom, God then gave them over to an 'unclean mind', to the lust of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31. Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." God does NOT give over believers, this is only as a result on continual rejection of Christ. The Greek term for ‘gave them over’ is speaking of handing a prisoner over to his sentence, i.e. when men consistently abandon God, He will abandon them. The verses 24-32 are the essence, expression and extent of man's sinfulness: 1. uncleanness - general term for a rotting corpse, used here speaking directly of sexual immorality which begins at the heart and like leaven begins to work through the whole lump of dough. 2. 'they changed the truth of God into a lie' - the denial of God's existence and His right to be obeyed and glorified by man. 3. vile passions - identified here as homosexuality 4. women exchanging affections - Greek word for 'female' 5. men exchanging affections and receiving in them the due penalty - Paul refers to self-destructive nature of this sin, homosexuality, of which AIDS is just one evidence. 6. God gave them over to a debased mind - debased here often referred to metals which were thrown away because they contained too much impurity to be of any use. God, having tested these men's minds, found them useless and worthless. 7. verse 1:32 - knowing God. Not ignorance, but blatant rebellion against God. They knew God because their conscience bore witness to God, the word conscience is literally 'with knowledge of'. A good example of this is a pagan, in simple words, but one as verse 20 tells us was revealed the attributes of God by the conscience and creation itself bearing witness of God. Pay attention to the beginning of verse 1:26 - 'For This Reason', God gave them up, because they denied God's existence and worshiped nature over God they no longer have conscience to the issues of sin and homosexual and vile passions eventually follow, according to these passages. 8. 1:28 - this list of sins: they are the result of being given over, the result of unbelief, rejection of Christ and the denial of God's Word. They were 'filled' with these sins, the word filled is the key phrase; in other words they did not do them once, or slip-up, but they did them continuously, with no conscience to it. 'Full of' envy, strife, etc. Again, being rejecters of God, unbelievers, God had seared their conscience, meaning their conscience no longer existed and they were full of and known of these sins listed as a result. Ending here, Paul has addressed the immoral pagan, rejecter, hater of God, Christ and His word, and in the next set of verses (2:1-16) begins to speak to the religious moralist, both Jews and moral gentiles. In verses 2:1-16, Paul catalogues six principles that govern God's judgment: knowledge (verse 1), truth (2,3), guilt (4-5), deeds (5; 6-10), impartiality (11-15) and motive (16). Paul starts Romans off with ‘I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the Power of God’ In almost all of Romans we find the Gospel of salvation. In verses 1:18-32, which speaks of the unbeliever, we see God’s wrath upon the unrepentant wicked. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Romans 3:23-24 This excludes the previously mentioned in verses 1:18-32, as the justified are only those who believe in Jesus as Lord. The Scripture also states, that ‘If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15; this obedience is a result of the Spirit living in a believer, that he keeps the commandments of his Lord. And if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus. All of us have sinned; we participated in breaking God’s holy law and His commandments. God in His justice and holiness found us guilty of sin; we were unable to free ourselves from our wickedness, so Christ in the most loving and compassionate act of all lowered himself a little lower than the angels and came to earth as a man, died for our sins bearing the penalty of our sin which was death. By repenting of our sins and receiving Christ we have been washed of the former wicked ways we once walked in and no longer are slaves to sin; we are servants of the most High God. This is the melody of Romans, as a believer walking in Christ but still having a fleshly nature and tenancies towards fleshly things, and struggles against the flesh, but do we go back and continue in those things which we formerly did as unbelievers? No. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:1- 4 Newness of life; no longer slaves to sin. We bear the marks of our Lord in our walk, and that we, positionally, in the Kingdom stand righteous and blameless in God’s sight, because of Christ. - Steven

Posted by Steven: PP, Maybe you can explain what the term ''preach down' means? What difference does it make whether I am here today or gone tomorrow? And how is that a violation of the Scriptures? Hopefully, we are doing more than just witnessing where it is relatively safe, on a PC in the comfort of the home or office. Here there is no risk; no one can burn you at the stake... the worst that can happen is SPAM, or aching fingers. Let us not treat this as if it is the only form of Spiritual ministry. Perhaps it would be healthy to stick our heads out the window occasionally and realize that we actually have to put our words into action (preaching the Gospel) out there in the big, wide world. If you notice, throughout this entire thread I have not personally attacked anyone. Yet, you feel the need to do so. Little piece of advice: if you are going to get in a brother's face, at least do it from the Scriptures, that he may be edified. " Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." Romans 14:4 Blessings, - Steven PS: Back to thread topic please

Posted by Steven: Quoted from AP news story: "United Church of Christ Backs Gay Marriage Monday July 4, 2005 5:46 PM, AP Photo GARF102: By DOUG GROSS, Associated Press Writer - ATLANTA (AP) - The United Church of Christ's rulemaking body voted overwhelmingly Monday to approve a resolution that endorses same-sex marriage, making it the largest Christian denomination to do so. The vote is not binding on individual churches, but could cause some churches to leave the fold. Roughly 80 percent of the members of the church's General Synod voted to approve the resolution. They debated for about an hour before voting. On Sunday, a committee of about 50 United Church of Christ representatives gave nearly unanimous approval to the resolution. It was supported by the UCC's president, John H. Thomas" When I originally posted this thread, I was assailed: what are your reasons for posting this, what is your motive, etc. But, this morning I woke up, grabbed my cup of decaf, and could not help but notice the associated press was gleefully reporting on the news that the 'Church of Christ' has now shamefully embraced/endorsed same-sex marriage. Thus, the reason I bring up such an controversial and contested subject here. My thinking is that many denominations have already embraced homosexuality in their midst, they just have not come out of the closet with their anti-christ opinions as of yet. Stay tuned. - Steven

Posted by Steven: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders... 1 Corinth. 6:9 - Steven

Section 2: The following posts are from a different forum, TheologyWeb, same topic:

Thread Topic, Posted by Steven: Are homosexuals going to heaven? Yes or No answer only.

Posted by RightIdea: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; ... [and he gives a laundry list of sins]... 32who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Posted by Steven: RightIdea, Please note the following portions of the Scripture and you'll know why so many FALSE CHRISTIANS consent to homosexuals: "25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie" Rom. 1:25 "not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Rom. 1:32" God does NOT give over believers, this is only as a result of continual rejection of Christ. The Greek term for ‘gave them over’ is speaking of handing a prisoner over to his sentence, i.e. when men consistently abandon God, He will abandon them. Pay attention to the beginning of Romans 1:26 - 'For This Reason', God gave them up, because they denied God's existence and worshiped nature over God they no longer have conscience to the issues of sin and homosexual and vile passions eventually follow, according to these passages. On Romans 1:32 - knowing God. Not ignorance, but blatant rebellion against God. They knew God because their conscience bore witness to God, the word conscience is literally 'with knowledge of'. A good example of this is a pagan, in simple words, but one as verse 20 tells us was revealed the attributes of God by the conscience and creation itself bearing witness of God. -Steven

Posted by AmazingRando: A note for Romans 1- don't forget what follows immediately after in Romans 2!

Posted By Steven: Rando, And, in Romans 3? "Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?" Romans 3:5-6 "And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just." (please note the word 'damnation') "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15. Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16. Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17. And the way of peace have they not known: 18. There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;" Romans 3:12-21"

Posted by Amazing Rando: Yes! Also in Romans 3! " 9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:"There is no one righteous, not even one;11there is no one who understands,no one who seeks God.12All have turned away, they have together become worthless;there is no one who does good,not even one." By the way, the thread title is a really inane question IMO, unless you were specifically trying to make a point with it. It's like asking "Are haughty, self-righteous jerks going to heaven?" The answer is, as for anyone else, absolutely! -so long as they repent and take God up on his incredible offer of grace and forgiveness.

Posted by Steven: Are homosexuals going to heaven? It is a simple Yes or No answer. Let’s say the thread was: Is Satan going to heaven? (another simple yes or no answer) You would probably reply in the same fashion: 1. “Working out my own salvation and don't have time to pick up the nearest stone to throw it." 2.. “Sorry, not enough information to answer.” 3. “Are adulterers going to heaven? Are liars going to heaven? Are the proud going to heaven? Are sinners going to heaven? Are you going to heaven? What makes you think so?” 4. “It can't be answered yes or no.” 5. “Why Steven would want to archive a debate which exposes his terrible scripture twisting is beyond me” 6. “can go to heaven the same way that a person that who struggles against temptations to hurt people, to steal, and to lie: Doing their best to obey Christ's commands and repenting when they dishonor God with their sin.” 7. “I answered yes, but of course like those who answered that it depends, that is absolutely right...” 8. “It may be written in his heart, but does that mean he can't be forgiven of it? We are not as enlightened as we would like to believe sometimes...” Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools... Romans 1:22

Posted by Steven: 18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:18-32

Posted by JohnSparks: Steven, will former homosexuals be in heaven?

Posted by Steven: John Sparks, The believer's definition does not come from some so-called 'sexual orientation', but by God's grace through faith for the repentant redeemed, who are also known as Christians. As far as those who practice homosexuality, they will not enter the Kingdom of God. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," 1 cor 6:9

Posted by Hamster: Steven, These are not the people that God gave an "unclean mind" to because they rejected Christ. They are not condemned because of the weakness of their flesh because they trust in Christ and the work he did on the Cross to redeem them.

Posted by Steven: Hamster, The Scriptures say: Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: Rom. 1:24 The very fact that they continue to have lust towards that which is against nature is because God has already given them over to an unclean mind. "and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due." Romans 1:27 There is no doubt that this is talking directly of homosexuality, and these people will not be in the Kingdom.

Posted by RightIdea: Why doesn't the same go for you, Steven? In regards to telling a lie, having wrongful anger (which equal murder in the mind), envy (desire to steal), etc.? You told a lie, continued to have a deceitful spirit after confessing the Lord Jesus Christ... so, clearly, God has given you over to your sins. Why are you treating homosexuality as some special magical sin that goes by different salvational rules than all other sins, including murder?

Posted by Steven RightIdea, "The very fact that they continue to have lust towards that which is against nature is because God has already given them over to an unclean mind" Emphasis on the word 'continue', showing the evidence of lack of repentance. Can a believer lie, have we lied? Yes, we'd be lying to say otherwise, but am I am liar...do I continue to lie. No, because we as believers in Christ remain in continual repentance and confession, through the work of the Holy Spirit. There is a distinction. To equate lying with homosexuality is comparing day to night, for many reasons, one of which is: is it not normative in the Scriptures anywhere. Nowhere in the Scriptures will you find Jesus, the Apostles, the Patriarchs, nor the prophets ever engaging in homosexuality, and anytime this sin is mentioned in the Bible, anywhere, it is met harshly with God's full wrath. Now, you will find those justified by faith whom have lied, whom have murdered and whom have envied, etc.; but nowhere in the Scriptures will you find those justified by faith lusting after that which is against nature or participating in homosexual acts. You only find that in modern, feminized 'christian' culture. You must ask yourself, why do you have to defend the sin of homosexuality, when the Scriptures are very clear cut? The body of Christ has vehemently held to the Scriptural view of homosexuality, as being an abomination to God, for over 2000 years, and suddenly in the last 20-30 years, modern 'christian' academia has decided it knows better than the 'intolerant' God of the Universe. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22 - Steven

Posted by RightIdea, Steven, I see... so you would agree that a person can accept Christ, be saved, and then commit a homosexual act and go to heaven?

Posted by Steven: Right Idea, Homosexual act? Scripture says homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God. Why is that so difficult for you to accept? "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 1 cor. 6:9"

Posted by JohnSparks: Will there be former homosexuals in heaven? Answer yes or no, please.

Posted by Steven, JS, "Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. " Mathew 22:29

Posted by JohnSparks: Why can't you answer yes or no? You demand it from eveyone else. Can someone who is currently a homosexual, repent of being one, accept Jesus as their savior, be saved and go to heaven? Will there be former homosexuals in heaven? Yes or No?

Posted by Steven: "The very fact that they continue to have lust towards that which is against nature is because God has already given them over to an unclean mind" Emphasis on the word 'continue', showing the evidence of lack of repentance. Can a believer lie, have we lied? Yes, we'd be lying to say otherwise, but am I am liar...do I continue to lie. No, because we as believers in Christ remain in continual repentance and confession, through the work of the Holy Spirit. There is a distinction. To equate lying with homosexuality is comparing day to night, for many reasons, one of which is: is it not normative in the Scriptures anywhere. Nowhere in the Scriptures will you find Jesus, the Apostles, the Patriarchs, nor the prophets ever engaging in homosexuality, and anytime this sin is mentioned in the Bible, anywhere, it is met harshly with God's full wrath. Now, you will find those justified by faith whom have lied, whom have murdered and whom have envied, etc.; but nowhere in the Scriptures will you find those justified by faith lusting after that which is against nature or participating in homosexual acts. You only find that in modern, feminized 'christian' culture. You must ask yourself, why do you have to defend the sin of homosexuality, when the Scriptures are very clear cut? The body of Christ has vehemently held to the Scriptural view of homosexuality, as being an abomination to God, for over 2000 years, and suddenly in the last 20-30 years, modern 'christian' academia has decided it knows better than the 'intolerant' God of the Universe. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:22 - Steven

Posted by Steven: J. Sparks I have already answered that question in previous posts; repetition is futile. - Steven

Posted by DarthExecutioner: Steven, Are white people going to heaven?

Posted by Steven: How much did your education cost there, darthexecutioner? I bet the next question is: will my goldfish go to heaven? Well, that depends on whether you flushed it down the toilet or not... Does someone have a legitimate question that has not already been addressed, if so then I'll answer it to the best of my ability. - Steven

Posted by Steven: The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves. 10. Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings. 11. Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him. 12. As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:9-12

Posted by John Sparks: 1 Cor 6:9 says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you agree that this says that homosexuals (as well as theives, drunkards, adulterers, etc) can be saved by becoming FORMER homosexuals, thieves, drunkards, etc? That if a homosexual repents and gives up practicing homosexuality and becomes a Christian, that they will be saved and be in heaven? Isn't that what those verses is saying? YES or NO. Look I am only trying to give you a chance to redeem yourself. Everyone here thinks you are a militant wack-job that hates 'homos' so much that you believe that there is no hope for them. that if someone once is a homosexual that they cannot repent and be saved. Can a homosexual repent, change and be saved or not? Are you AFRAID to answer? or are you just a troll?

Posted by Steven: J. Sparks, As long as you have air in your lungs, you have the ability to repent. However, no homosexual will enter the Kingdom of God. The Scriptures say, if you notice, "this is what some of you WERE, but you have been washed" ; when you have been washed and sanctified, you are clean, you are NO LONGER a homosexual, or a thief, or a liar; you are no longer IDENTIFIED by your sin, otherwise you were not really washed. Why would anyone want to be identified by their sin? Why not rather be identified by Christ, our Redeemer? Identifying yourself by your sin while claiming Christ, is completely contrary to Christ and rejects His atoning work!! Therefore, NO... homosexuals will NOT be in the Kingdom of God, nor the "sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10[u]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers". 1 Corinthians 6:9 If we be in Christ, we become sons and co-heirs with Christ. We have been washed, cleansed and purified, anointed and possessed by the Spirit of God, and positionally, we stand righteous in the eyes of God; why then go identify with, or participate in, or even associate with a sin that is not even of the natural, to wear this defiled thing like a cloak, all the while claiming Christ? This twisted doctrine is as heinous as the sin itself, for its message attempts to pervert the Body of Christ. Now do I have something against homosexuals? No, we are all under sin and they are in need of a savior; besides, I live in California. If a homosexual asks me "Am I going to go to Heaven?", I say, "Absolutely Not. If you continue in your sins, you will not enter the Kingdom of God." Keep in mind, the Scripture says they have been GIVEN OVER to these things. Hope this answers your question. As for being a 'militant whack job', it comes with the territory; you should make your judgments in light of Scripture. My opinion is not popular, I know that, but I don't come on here to make friends, but to preach the Gospel in season and out of season, whether popular or not. - Steven

Posted by RightIdea, Good gravy in heaven, the man answered a question! Someone grab a Polaroid! Steven, so then... you agree that a queer can accept Christ, actually repent... and later give in to temptation in the moment and commit a homosexual act, and still go to heaven? Like you said, you still lie, you still commit this and that sin, but you are a repentant believer and you no longer live in your sin, therefore as one in Christ, you are saved. Thus, the same exact thing would apply to a queer... Right? Just making sure I understand what you just said.

Posted by Steven: RI, Don't misquote me; I never said I still lie. It is vastly inappropriate and callow of you to fabricate said meaning. God forbid that you get into ministry with such a mendacious, avaricious spirit; such reckless divisiveness would destroy any church you are involved in. Why don't you humble yourself and put your mouth in the dust that you may gain an ounce of wisdom, instead of acting like a barbarous fool. I say this for your own edification. What I actually said was this: “Emphasis on the word 'continue', showing the evidence of lack of repentance. Can a believer lie, have we lied? Yes, we'd be lying to say otherwise, but am I am liar...do I continue to lie? No, because we as believers in Christ remain in continual repentance and confession, through the work of the Holy Spirit. There is a distinction.”

Posted by PaulT: Steven, Is the issue the definition of repentence?

Posted by Steven: PaulT, To answer your question our definition is not found in repentance but found in Christ whose very kindness leads us to repentance. The definition of repentance certainly comes into play; repentance is a result of having the Spirit of God dwelling within you, and all gifts come from God whether faith or repentance; it is all the work of God within us. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8-9 The issue here is that God has given homosexuals over, as defined in Romans, enabling them to do the acts which are so abominable to Him, and bearing in themselves "the due penalty for their perversion.". "God gave them over to a reprobate mind" Romans 1:28b "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?... nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders" 1 Corinthians 6:9. - Steven

Posted by Pilgrim: Yes, there are homosexuals going to heaven. I assume there are homosexuals who are not going to heaven as well. Same as heterosexuals.

Posted by Steven: Pilgrim, So does the Holy Spirit, which you claim to have, have any Scriptures to back up your 'yes' answer... or, are you just spouting personal assertions? - Steven

Posted by YonkthPLonk: The question was vague. I interpret it thusly: "Could those who are currently tempted towards homosexual activities go to heaven?" I voted YES.

Posted by Steven: Plonk, do you have any Scriptures to back up your point? "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a Sodomite of the sons of Israel." Deut. 23:17 "And there were also Sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel." 1 Kings 14:24 "And he took away the Sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made." 1 Kings 15:12 "And he brake down the houses of the Sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangings for the grove." 2 Kings 23:7 - Steven

Posted by John Sparks: Steven, we posted the scripture to back up that many who are homosexual now will be in heaven because they will repent and be washed clean. 1 Cor 6:9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Obviously if they WERE homosexuals and are now washed clean, they are going to heaven. Therefore many that are homosexuals can be saved.

Posted by Steven: John Sparks, That is altogether fallacious! Whom has bewitched you to embrace the abominable? Here, where there should be shame, there is an embrace of vile sin, attempting to turn that which has been sanctified towards that which is perverse. How can a Christian hold to such a convoluted interpretation of those Scriptures? Have you read the warning God gave about adding to the Scriptures? Your post merely shows your own personal bias. “ I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book: 19. and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19 " For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of ourGod into lasciviousness." Jude 1:4 “And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.” 2 Corinthians 12:21

Posted by Steven: God said in His word: 18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. rom 1:18-32 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 12. All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 15. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.1 corinth. 6:9-20 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. 24. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25. And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27. (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28. That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God. lev. 18:20-30 12. And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. 13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. lev. 20:12-13 4. Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 5. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6. From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 tim. 1:4-10 The question is, is there anyone out there who would disagree with the Scriptures that say that homosexuality is an abomination, including theologyweb; I think it aught to be known which side we are on. Are we on the side of continuing child molestors and homosexuals like the catholics? Are we going to call this what the Scripture does: abomination? Do we sin that Grace may abound? GOD FORBID. "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." rom. 6:1-13 God forbid, or literally, 'may it never be' the strongest Greek idiom of the time for repudiating an argument. IN other words, even to the point of outrage, against the grace of our Lord Jesus being turned into laciviousness. Let this be a defining moment, that you out there may be outraged, through the Spirit of God, knowing that the Scriptures condemn this behavior with the strongest type of language. I will not coverse with anyone who would defend homosexuality in any way, except to quote the Holy Scriptures as a response. To even reply to these shameful people, these spots on your love feasts, these clouds with no rain, these haters of Christ, the very ones that drink the blood of the saints, would be shameful to do. Do you not know that bad company corrupts good judgement? For it is shameful even to speak of what these people do in secret. - Steven

Posted by JohnSparks: So does that mean you can't answer me? you seem to be stuck... stuck... stuck... stuck... stuck... What does Paul mean when he says "And such were some of you, but you were washed clean..." in regards to the previous list of offenders, including homosexuals? Doesn't that mean that he was writing to some former homosexuals in his letter? That these people who used to be homosexuals were no longer, but were now saved? From what I can glean from your posts, since you will not just come right out and say it is this You believe that if a person is a homosexual even once, then they are forever damned and cannot repent and be saved. Is that what you think? Just get some gumption and say what you truly believe and stop beating around the bush. I know of someone who used to be a homosexual a long time ago - he even was a gay rights activist, but he was saved, became a Christian and is no longer a homosexual. In fact, he is married and has some grown children now. Is he saved? or damned?

Posted by Steven: Here is your answer. "3. If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4. he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5. wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain. 6. But godliness with contentment is great gain: 7. for we brought nothing into the world, for neither can we carry anything out” 1 Tim. 6:3-7

Posted by DeeDeeWarren: (site administrator) Was "homosexual" ever defined by Steven in this thread? One cannot answer the question if one does not know how he is defining it.

Posted by Steven: DeeDee, It is real simple, it is defined in the Bible. If you would like I'd be happy to quote some Scriptures defining it. Your response sounds like a cop-out to me, but you have sites to run, don't let me interrupt you. - Steven

Posted by DeeDeeWarren: You are refusing to answer? If you are going to ask a question you should be willing to define terms. You are looking for responses that are acccurate, don't you?

Posted by Steven: Mrs./Mz. Dee Dee Warren, First of all, to honor the Scriptures regarding teaching women, I recommend that, if you are married, that first you ask your husband, whom is the head of the house about these questions you have per the order set forth by God. “ If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home;” 1 Corinthians 14:35 The Scriptures have the definition you seek: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders" 1 Corinthians 6:9 The term ‘homosexual’ in the above verse is defined as arsenokoites: a sodomite, abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.; if you like hebrew/chaldee better - qadesh: a male devotee by prostitution to licentious idolatry, sodomite, unclean (Kings) Similarly, mentioned in the above verse ‘the effeminate’: malakos- of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: --effeminate, soft. Also mentioned in the above verse, a fornicator: pornos- a (male) prostitute (as venal), i.e. (by analogy) a debauchee (libertine) These people, “the unjust ones (adikos: unjust; by extension wicked; by implication, treacherous; specially, heathen) not (ou: a primary word; the absolute negative) inherit the Kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9) For more on depraved mind and being given over, see some of my previous posts. - Steven

Posted by Steven: To all: Please Note: If there is a legitimate question in light of the Scriptures, I will be happy to discuss it, but I will not answer any posts that merely espouse personal view(s), sentiments or any self- glorifying debauchery on this subject. Simply, if you have something to say, prove it from the Scriptures. - Steven

Posted by Theonomy: OK, this has now become extremely easy. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Therefore any homosexual who believes in Christ will be saved. QED. Now Steven, got any Scriptural proof that no homosexual person will be saved? And don't talk to me about verses that speak about wicked actions, unless you ar also willing to argue from Scripture that no person who hass sinned will be saved. So the ball is in your court Steven. Got Scripture?

Posted by Steven: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders... 1 Corinth. 6:9 - Steven

We encourage you to email the author to prove or disprove, from the Scriptures, the intent, meaning, purpose or doctrine of this piece. email Steven